1
w
and
the dollar value placed on the services of officers, it is certainly highly desirable, that the Board's principal executive officer
should command the
respect of all classes of the Chinese, with whom he is in daily contact.
-A reference to the papers which were
before
the Board when the estimates
wire
being considered which
we understand have been
forwarded to you - will
other reasons for
sive
our
this letter to you, sincerely bust-that-
addressing and we sincerely His Eexcellency will be pleased
to give
our recommendation the
farruable consideration which it
descives.
We havere.
sup
"
J. Cantlie
J. J. Francis
I. D. stumphreys люкай
The Daily Press.
HONGKONG, DECEMBER 5TH, 1991.
Enclosure 5.
HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.
cil was beld
seat:-
A. meeting of the Legisla v yesterday afternoon. There
HIS EXCELLENCY THE ACTING GOVERNOR, Major-General G. DIGBY BARKER, C.B.
a. W. M. GOODMAN, Acting Colonial Becary.
Hon. A. J. LEACH, Acting Attorney-General. Hon J. H. SWART-LOCKHART, Registrar General.
Hon. N. G. MITCHELL-INNES, Colonial Treasurer.
Hon. F. A. CooPAK, Acting Surveyor-General. Hon. W. C. H. HASTINGS, Acting Harbour Master.
Hon. P. RYRIE.
Hon. Ho KaJ.
Hon. J. J. KESWICK.
Hon. 'T. H. WHITEHEAD.
Hon. T. H. WJITEHEAD-I move that the vote for $10.000 for ganl extension be omisted. I cordially agree with the marks made by my hon, friend opposite, Mr. Keswick, and share his opinion that there is really no necessity what- ever for a new gaol. Every taxpayer in the alony. I think, is opposed to it. If good reasons could be shown I have not the least doubt th anofficial members would be prepared to alter thair position, bat we have before us the fact that the number of prisoners in gaol to-day is Jess than it has bean in recent years, and there is no reason to anticipate that any addition to the number of prisoners will shortly occur I think it would be nothing less than wauton extravagance, in the present position of the Colony, to entre ou the building of a W gaol. The HD. Mr. Chater put forward a scheme some little time ago for the expansion of, the presoat prison, which I firmly believe cau be carried out, and carried out at the cost of no very large expenditure. Under the circum. stauess I move that this vote be omitted. The Government can at any time, when plans and es timates bave been prepared, summon the Conucil | and by means of the very numerous official vote
get the money from the Council.
Hon. Ho KAI I bog to second the amend ment. It is
known pretty well
tu the Government that the ratepayers of this Colony and all the unofficial mombers are opposed to this vote. The building of a new gaol has beou sanctioned at home upon the mistaken notion that the separate system should be carried out here. I made the remark on one occasion before that I did not think the solitary system would tell ery much upon the Chinea criminal class. They are a vary patient sat ofole and the separat - system would be entirely wasted and thrown away upon them. I think perhaps something more in the nature of severer corporal punishment would be better than the separate system. It is simply waste if we have to throw away half
a million or three quarters of a million of dollars on a new gaol; and you will admit that if the present vote is passed through the Council the remainder of the money must be voted.
Hon. J. J. Keswick-From the remark made by your Excellency at the last moe of Council I understand it is almost impossible for the Government just now to refram from passing this vote, in consequence of the instrae. tions you have received. That is a state of affairs which, holding the views I do as to the absence of any necessity for a new gaol. I regard as very regrettable, and I would be mach relieved to bear there is somo mugans oi getting out of the difficulty. I am ge satix- fied myself that this is a very great ror which the Colonial Authorities at home have committed
C. O.
574
EOP REG 11 JAN JE
some
and that if they can be brought to view the position in the light in which we see it they will not go on. I am quite satisfied the ex- penditure is unnecessary. I will certainly record my vote against this item when called upon to vote, but I very gready tezret there is n means of deferring has expenditurs until the mattor bas besa ventilated in a way which will show the authorities at home it is an unnecessary expenditure. This might port aps he done by a new commission of inquiry into the matter. I know commissions are cuci bersome, they take time, and after they have made their reports it is two or three years b fore they are acted opon, and then new personS are attending to the matter and carrying 1 out the recommendations, and then a new com- unission is suggested. Y may be thought that is what I am sugg ag; but I would very much like to see a new com nision appoint- ed to see if it might be possible
to carry out some wore coonomir. scheme than; that of building a new gaoi. 1 ma t record my rote against this expenditure.
HIS EXCELLENCY--The item under diens- sion is called "gaol extension," and all th have spoken against it at presaut have. I. 115, unanimously expressed their opinion in favour of the necessity of extending the gaol. į Whether it should be extended on its pre- seat site or by erecting a soparate build- ing on another site is a matter 00 which at present we have the instructions of the Sacre- tary of State; but the necessity of gaol exten- sion in some fin bas hitherto, as I have seen by all the documents I bave percsed, been admitted, I may s. by almost every one. The necessity of it has been arged from year to year by the Superintendents of the Gaol, who have seen the very urgent necessity for i. It has been recognised by each succeeding Secretary of State from Lord Carnarvon, Lord Kimberley. Lord Derby, Mr. Stanhope, to the presso Secretary of State; in fact, oach succeed- ing Secretary of State has not only spoken in favour of it. but most strongly urged it. We talk of the associated system and the separ ate system. We have heard from the hon. mew- ber who represents the Chinese that the separ- ate system will not have any deterrent effect be- yond what the associated system has upon the Chiuese. That he only knows as a matter of opinion from bis general knowledge of his coun- trymen. On the other hand the Superintendents of the Gaol, who have been close observers of the Chinese prisoners confined in the gaol, have all nnanimously stated the contrary. And as an ounce of practice is worth a pound of theory I should like to read one passage from the report! of the Superintendent of the Gaol for the year i 1885 :---
That short sentences passed in associated wards are nt very deterrent I have fair evid- once. There aro generally in gaol from 20 to 30 prisoners of the griminal class, poutined for short periods for want of finding aepity (panguolly waly a for dollars) for grad” bë-
haviour. Those persons are placed i 88- sociated wards, comfortably lodge and fel, and have no work to do. As a rule they declare themselves nnable to find the required security and remain in goal the appointed tim
But, having some idea that many of the 'ge. curity prisoners' could find security if the wished, indeed knowing that some of thom had more money in their possession than the amount of security demanded, I tried the experi- ment of sending several of them to sepurate cells, the result being that ry for stood more than three or four days cf separate coaline nt but found the security required and left he gaol. Had these men been allowed to remain together in an associated ward it seems probable they would have preferred a rest of a few months in gaol at the cost of the Colony."
That is actual experiance of fet. But there is auother point. The desirability of the separate system is often spokon of, as it was just now by the hon. member who represents the Chinese,
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